epitaphic
Aug 20, 08:07 AM
Not every professional is going to need more than 4 cores let alone be willing to pay for it. I think the more processors, the more specialized the computer is going to become.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
This is precisely the transition we've been seeing for some time, becoming more and more apparent every 6 months. Computers are no longer general purpose machines. It's already happened to consumers: machines today are way more than what's needed for web and email. For prosumers, its just about right, for gamers, you can never have enough single core + GPU power.
I think its fair to say to that the Mac Pro is in a way too specialized already. If you look at it's server RAM for example, which group of professionals benefits from its strengths? How many professionals will actually be able to get close to using all four cores during their normal workflow?
The way i see it, there are about 8 mainstream lines of professionals:
- 3D Artists
- Coders
- Graphic Designers
- IT
- Multimedia Artists
- Musicians
- Photographers
- Video Editors
Who can fully utilize 4 cores right now? I'd say possibly 3D Artists, Musicians(quad G5 only), and IT.
Sure everyone else will probably get a 15% kick in performance in some apps but for the most part, 4 core Mac Pro is not going to make your apps run any faster (it does give the machine more headroom for ample multitasking though). Of course at the moment there is only a 4 core Mac Pro so it's a bit academic to discuss the fact that a 2 core Mac Pro would be just as productive and much more cost effective. However, as most of you probably already know, there are good chances of an 8 core Mac Pro in January.
Sidenote: This sort of update (new machine in August, new machine following January) is not new. It happened in 2002-2003 resulting in the top of the line machine introduced in August to drop 40% in price in January.
So the interesting thing to speculate now is, if most of us have a hard time utilizing a quad to its full potential, what would an 8 core do for you? I know its not cost effective for apple at the moment, but in the future I suspect we'll be seeing 4-8 lines of professional macs.
NebulaClash
Apr 27, 08:51 AM
The point is that I save on my computer what I consider the computer to be safe enough for, which includes, eg, my e-mails. I simply would like to be given the choice to decide whether I want to save certain things on my computer or not. With that database, Apple did not give me the choice because it did not inform me about this database (if it had told me, I might have run a cron job to delete it, excluded it from my TM backups, encrypted my iPhone backups, etc.).
I did delete it last year when this story first came up, and it's been gone ever since. So when I tried to use that mapping site to track my whereabouts, it couldn't run (file not found).
I did delete it last year when this story first came up, and it's been gone ever since. So when I tried to use that mapping site to track my whereabouts, it couldn't run (file not found).
Parikh1234
Aug 25, 02:57 PM
I have had no luck today getting two batteries replaced. I enter their serial numbers and it tells me they are not valid serials, even though they fall within the range. When I call the support number and hit 5, i just get a busy tone and it hangs up on me.
charlituna
Apr 6, 08:22 PM
I've posted several predictions over the past few months throughout this tread at Cinema5D:
http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
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http://cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25464
I took a look at the post and while I think your ideas are well thought out and very 'Apple' there are a few points that I disagree with.
First off the notion that Apple has to match QuickTime on Windows and Mac. I don't see that they do so I won't be shocked if they don't. Or they might do another QT Pro (but i doubt they would let you use your old QT7 key)
Also on the whole timeline issue. I don't see it as Apple changing one for the other. What I see is the user having a choice. They did this in iMovie so why not in FCS. Let folks work the way they feel is most efficient whether that is single line, flowchart etc. Same with how some of the tools function. Leave the old way and add the new one. Maybe both on the screen or perhaps a preference that allows you to use 'classic tools'.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea of them adding Aperture to the package, but I agree that they could and should have some kind of catalog program or mode. Something that could perhaps bridge the components and even perhaps output from other programs like Premiere, Maya etc even Logic Studio. It might even allow for importing and logging without having to open Final Cut and allow you to put in Meta data like location, names of people in shot, etc. Stuff that would make that iMovie People Search etc viable tools.
And while I like the idea of a plugin store I'm not sure it would be separate from the Mac App Store, particularly if this version of FCS required at least Snow Leo. even if it was its own face I could definitely see Apple putting it into that pay system.
And one thing you didn't mention that I think is plausible is incorporating FCServer into the set rather than as a stand alone sku. Perhaps not within the programs but put that disk in the box as well. if Lion is any example, Apple seems to be getting away from separating Server functionality and having that software in the box as well could help those on the fence about switching. Especially if the whole thing was no more that the current $999 (a little less would be even better)
mrsir2009
Apr 6, 01:10 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
I have a 13" ultimate of the current generation. The limiting factor for me is the graphics, not the processor. so going to sandy bridge with the intel 3000 would be a less appealing machine for my uses than the current model. It's really too bad the sandy bridge macs are tied to those garbage integrated graphics.
...Or scummy ATI. I love the NVIDIA in my Core2Duo MBP :D
I have a 13" ultimate of the current generation. The limiting factor for me is the graphics, not the processor. so going to sandy bridge with the intel 3000 would be a less appealing machine for my uses than the current model. It's really too bad the sandy bridge macs are tied to those garbage integrated graphics.
...Or scummy ATI. I love the NVIDIA in my Core2Duo MBP :D
Westside guy
Aug 11, 11:50 PM
What sjo wrote seem quite accurate. Cells are extremly common here. It has become so common that cellphones nowdays are almost considered as a anti-status symbol. Poor people cant "afford" a land line.
I'm old enough to remember that cell phones became the norm in much of what used to be known as Eastern Europe based on simple economics. In many former Soviet-bloc countries the telephone infrastructure was spotty or even non-existent, and setting up cellular phone networks was a heck of a lot cheaper than laying new phone lines all over the countryside.
Of course that's not particularly relevant to Western Europe market penetration; but it does explain how cell phones are so prevalent Europe-wide.
I'm old enough to remember that cell phones became the norm in much of what used to be known as Eastern Europe based on simple economics. In many former Soviet-bloc countries the telephone infrastructure was spotty or even non-existent, and setting up cellular phone networks was a heck of a lot cheaper than laying new phone lines all over the countryside.
Of course that's not particularly relevant to Western Europe market penetration; but it does explain how cell phones are so prevalent Europe-wide.
Scarlet Fever
Jul 20, 08:23 AM
wow. 8 cores. *drool
and i was just getting used to dual cores...
i cant wait till they turn up as refurbs... ill own one faster than you can say "no you dont"
and i was just getting used to dual cores...
i cant wait till they turn up as refurbs... ill own one faster than you can say "no you dont"
rjheys
Mar 26, 05:57 AM
I still don't get it, why do we apple users have to pay for os updates? The hardware is already expensive as hell.
You know the best version of Windows 7 costs nearly 10x the price of the best version of OS X. ~$300 compared to $29. Thats a big difference.
You know the best version of Windows 7 costs nearly 10x the price of the best version of OS X. ~$300 compared to $29. Thats a big difference.
Kristenn
Mar 31, 10:33 PM
Good. I hope they take one of the last strengths of the iPad ecosystem away from it.
Wow, your username might be Full of Win (lol...) But this post is Full of Fail!
Care to explain? I mean, I don't get it. It seems like only the iHaters would understand this post or just pretend to so they can shout I AGREE!
I'm serious. Explain, please?
Wow, your username might be Full of Win (lol...) But this post is Full of Fail!
Care to explain? I mean, I don't get it. It seems like only the iHaters would understand this post or just pretend to so they can shout I AGREE!
I'm serious. Explain, please?
wschutz
Mar 26, 08:52 AM
People may not realize that Mac OS X Server will be INCLUDED with the client version of OS X Lion. This in itself was a several hundred dollar product. Not only does it make running your own server even easier for non-techies it simplifies the OS X product version choices from 2 down to 1. And licensing for that broken up into single or family pack.
How many different versions of Windows does MS sell? :p I can't even figure out the number of versions of Windows MS makes, it is at least a couple dozen while Apple provides the same equivalent functionality in only 2 (single/family pack). The overhead in managing all those different versions is mind-bongling.
And? Would like the idea of only being allowed to buy a mansion when you just need a flat?
Actually, Microsoft just does the same that Apple does, but at least Microsoft tells you... Apple sells a couple of feature every two years... Microsoft tells you... if you want three features... pay this... if you want five features... pay that...
Sorry, merging the server is not an advantage neither it is offering just one or two versions of the product (and if you think further... it is only an advantage for the manufacturer because maintenance of these products is dramatically decreased... or why do you think Apple doesn't want to allow its OS to be installed everywhere... because it would become just another Windows... excluding the profitable idea of selling it for your own products of course)
How many different versions of Windows does MS sell? :p I can't even figure out the number of versions of Windows MS makes, it is at least a couple dozen while Apple provides the same equivalent functionality in only 2 (single/family pack). The overhead in managing all those different versions is mind-bongling.
And? Would like the idea of only being allowed to buy a mansion when you just need a flat?
Actually, Microsoft just does the same that Apple does, but at least Microsoft tells you... Apple sells a couple of feature every two years... Microsoft tells you... if you want three features... pay this... if you want five features... pay that...
Sorry, merging the server is not an advantage neither it is offering just one or two versions of the product (and if you think further... it is only an advantage for the manufacturer because maintenance of these products is dramatically decreased... or why do you think Apple doesn't want to allow its OS to be installed everywhere... because it would become just another Windows... excluding the profitable idea of selling it for your own products of course)
GoodWatch
Apr 27, 09:51 AM
Good job Apple. Now let's move on to someone else, like freakin' Sony and their Playstation network.
Why?
Why?
Dan==
Jul 31, 09:35 AM
I think that the bigger issue with Dan=='s design (full credit and kudos for the idea!) is that the Mac Mini is so small that it only uses laptop components. If you want to have a full-size optical drive or a full-size hard drive, you need to use a larger form factor. This is part of the reason for the size of my design.
Here's a comparison in sizes (I've also changed the floor because my wife thought that the reflection was confusing...)
http://www.ghwphoto.com/3MacsFrontSm.png
http://www.ghwphoto.com/3MacsBackSm.png
Cheers!
Now you've got some skills. I especially like the shadowing, reflections and detail on the back side. Very nice.
I agree with your size assessment.
Actually, our designs are quite close, differing primarily in cosmetics. What I'm refering to is my earlier design, (which I suspect you missed) not boncellis'. boncellis wished to see a wider, flatter version for use in home entertainment, so I conjured that 2nd one up for visualization. While that form factor has grown on me somewhat, I still like the taller version, as I had done earlier, and you've shown here, as well.
Here's my initial design, from earlier in this thread.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9648/macandmacminipx9.jpg
The size of mine is a little smaller (narrower) - I wanted the whole thing less than 8" wide, though it could go back a little deeper, i.e. not necessarily square.
Also, see possible/hoped for product specs earlier in the thread.
Personally, I think I still prefer the smoother Mini-like skin than the perforated look of the Pro, but I'm just quibbling.
Thanks for the imagery.
-Dan
Here's a comparison in sizes (I've also changed the floor because my wife thought that the reflection was confusing...)
http://www.ghwphoto.com/3MacsFrontSm.png
http://www.ghwphoto.com/3MacsBackSm.png
Cheers!
Now you've got some skills. I especially like the shadowing, reflections and detail on the back side. Very nice.
I agree with your size assessment.
Actually, our designs are quite close, differing primarily in cosmetics. What I'm refering to is my earlier design, (which I suspect you missed) not boncellis'. boncellis wished to see a wider, flatter version for use in home entertainment, so I conjured that 2nd one up for visualization. While that form factor has grown on me somewhat, I still like the taller version, as I had done earlier, and you've shown here, as well.
Here's my initial design, from earlier in this thread.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9648/macandmacminipx9.jpg
The size of mine is a little smaller (narrower) - I wanted the whole thing less than 8" wide, though it could go back a little deeper, i.e. not necessarily square.
Also, see possible/hoped for product specs earlier in the thread.
Personally, I think I still prefer the smoother Mini-like skin than the perforated look of the Pro, but I'm just quibbling.
Thanks for the imagery.
-Dan
PBF
Apr 11, 11:11 PM
I think everyone making the (pretty much insane) comments that this spells the end of the iPhone's dominance should wait and see what iOS 5 looks like and how the iPhone 5 takes advantage of it.
Hmm, I wonder on what device they will preview iOS 5.
They can't really say something like "...and these awesome groundbreaking features will work even better on iPhone 5", can they? :rolleyes:
Hmm... :rolleyes:
Hmm, I wonder on what device they will preview iOS 5.
They can't really say something like "...and these awesome groundbreaking features will work even better on iPhone 5", can they? :rolleyes:
Hmm... :rolleyes:
shamino
Jul 21, 12:45 PM
I strongly disagree. I could use 16 cores right now for notihng more than simple consumer electronics video compression routines. There will be a Mac Pro with 8 cores this Winter 2007.
You are completely blind to the need for many cores right now for very simple stupid work. All I want to do is run 4 copies of Toast while running 4 copies of Handbrake simultaneously. Each wants 2 cores or more. So you are not thinking of the current need for 16 cores already.
All I will say is that you are not a typical user. You are not even close to typical.
OK. So maybe you need ten thousand cores and three million gigabytes of RAM. Don't think for an instant that the majority of the world shares your requirements.
You are completely blind to the need for many cores right now for very simple stupid work. All I want to do is run 4 copies of Toast while running 4 copies of Handbrake simultaneously. Each wants 2 cores or more. So you are not thinking of the current need for 16 cores already.
All I will say is that you are not a typical user. You are not even close to typical.
OK. So maybe you need ten thousand cores and three million gigabytes of RAM. Don't think for an instant that the majority of the world shares your requirements.
deniseeliza
Aug 29, 02:44 PM
I don't believe Apple would (or should) license out Mac OS X to run on non-Apple hardware. This is because Apple is a hardware company that uses Mac OS X to sell hardware. I wouldn't want it to be licensed out anyway, because then we would have to deal with registration key nightmares. Right now, there's nothing but your conscience and a license agreement you probably threw away keeping you from installing one copy of Mac OS X on every Mac you can get your hands on. Not that I do that, but I sure like just popping in my disk and reinstalling whenever it strikes my fancy.
On to the support issue, I think since the beginning of technical support there have always been those who complain that quality has really gone down and back in the good ol' days, you never had any problems, ever! And now, by golly, it's a coin toss whether you get a machine that even turns on!
Right, gramps, and back in your day, you walked to school uphill both ways in the snow with no boots and you liked it.
And 25% of new machines being lemons? Last quarter, Apple reported they shipped 1,327,000 computers. If we call a quarter 90 days, and assume that 25% of them are dead, that's more than 3,600 computers sold defective every single day. Are you kidding me? You really think a major hardware company would sell 3,600 defective computers every single day and get away with it?
This is what's really happening: Apple is selling more machines than ever. Apple's customers have greater access to the internet than ever. Even if the rate of failure stays the same, you have more customers with more internet savvy to come whine and moan on bulletin boards.
Yes, you deserve a perfectly functioning computer and you have the right to complain when your computer is broken. So call Apple or go down to your local service provider and get your machine serviced under warranty. That's what it's there for. It's also the number 1 best way to help Apple get clued in to potential issues with their products. They're not going to issue a recall because a bunch of bulletin board users complain to each other over and over again until they convince each other that there isn't a single MacBook Pro in the world that functions properly.
On to the support issue, I think since the beginning of technical support there have always been those who complain that quality has really gone down and back in the good ol' days, you never had any problems, ever! And now, by golly, it's a coin toss whether you get a machine that even turns on!
Right, gramps, and back in your day, you walked to school uphill both ways in the snow with no boots and you liked it.
And 25% of new machines being lemons? Last quarter, Apple reported they shipped 1,327,000 computers. If we call a quarter 90 days, and assume that 25% of them are dead, that's more than 3,600 computers sold defective every single day. Are you kidding me? You really think a major hardware company would sell 3,600 defective computers every single day and get away with it?
This is what's really happening: Apple is selling more machines than ever. Apple's customers have greater access to the internet than ever. Even if the rate of failure stays the same, you have more customers with more internet savvy to come whine and moan on bulletin boards.
Yes, you deserve a perfectly functioning computer and you have the right to complain when your computer is broken. So call Apple or go down to your local service provider and get your machine serviced under warranty. That's what it's there for. It's also the number 1 best way to help Apple get clued in to potential issues with their products. They're not going to issue a recall because a bunch of bulletin board users complain to each other over and over again until they convince each other that there isn't a single MacBook Pro in the world that functions properly.
ArkabaS
Aug 7, 03:45 PM
Why does no one ever mention the Dock? It is a HUGE part of OS X and hasn't changed since Jaguar. It could be so much more useful if it allowed for dividers, more customization, etc. I hope the Top Secret stuff includes major improvements to Finder, the Dock, and Expose.
emotion
Jul 20, 09:05 AM
Where you are going to see the difference is when you multi-task.
For Example: Burn a Blueray disk, render a FinalCut Pro movie, download your digital camera RAW files into Adobe Lightroom and run a batch, and watch your favorite movie from the iTunes Movie Store all without a single hiccup.
You're going to run into the hard disk being the bottle neck then. In principle though I agree with you.
For Example: Burn a Blueray disk, render a FinalCut Pro movie, download your digital camera RAW files into Adobe Lightroom and run a batch, and watch your favorite movie from the iTunes Movie Store all without a single hiccup.
You're going to run into the hard disk being the bottle neck then. In principle though I agree with you.
donlphi
Nov 28, 11:04 PM
Universal has already stated that half of the money will be going to the artists.
YEAH RIGHT... here you go EMINEM... here is your .00000000000000017 of a cent you get for this ZUNE. Just trying to share the wealth with ALL THE ARTISTS. Those artists will never see that money. PLEASE. HOW naive could you be?
Microsoft's lack of backbone is going to make us all pay... wait and see.
YEAH RIGHT... here you go EMINEM... here is your .00000000000000017 of a cent you get for this ZUNE. Just trying to share the wealth with ALL THE ARTISTS. Those artists will never see that money. PLEASE. HOW naive could you be?
Microsoft's lack of backbone is going to make us all pay... wait and see.
ProwlingTiger
Mar 31, 08:44 PM
I like everyone bashing on the Apple "fanboys." It's comical. Somehow telling it like it is hangs a sign around your neck saying "i'm a fanboy, flame me."
People defending Google here by saying Google is still open are simply delusional. Now, if you defend Google by saying, "hey, Google was wrong these past few years, they're going in the right direction now," I'll give you credit.
But, somehow, Google changing its policies that were clearly not in the best interest of consumers gives people a reason to bash Apple customers.
Google is practically admitting what Apple "fanboys" have been saying all along.
"You can't handle the truth!"
SactoGuy18: Good idea. I've been wondering why Google never did this originally.
People defending Google here by saying Google is still open are simply delusional. Now, if you defend Google by saying, "hey, Google was wrong these past few years, they're going in the right direction now," I'll give you credit.
But, somehow, Google changing its policies that were clearly not in the best interest of consumers gives people a reason to bash Apple customers.
Google is practically admitting what Apple "fanboys" have been saying all along.
"You can't handle the truth!"
SactoGuy18: Good idea. I've been wondering why Google never did this originally.
Cameront9
Aug 7, 05:46 PM
WHat is he deal with no new displays, but they did drop the prices a little. I think the iPod is long overdue at this point for a makeover. I guess I'm just a victim of my own unfulfilled expectations.
The displays WERE updated slightly...check the main page.
As for iPods...why "makeover" what is working? And this was the DEVELOPERS conference. iPods, if they happen before Christmas, will be either at Paris or a special media event (the latter more likely, IMHO).
The displays WERE updated slightly...check the main page.
As for iPods...why "makeover" what is working? And this was the DEVELOPERS conference. iPods, if they happen before Christmas, will be either at Paris or a special media event (the latter more likely, IMHO).
iGary
Aug 25, 03:05 PM
Apple needs to address this situation appropriately. As their products gain higher profile, as their customer base increases and they gain market share, it's only logical to think that there will be a greater need for support.
You're missing a comma. :p :D
You're missing a comma. :p :D
Skika
Mar 26, 08:00 AM
Will it have a new theme? I think its really time for aqua to be put to rest and something new comes along.
mcoyne
Apr 27, 08:40 AM
Poo. I'd rather have the option to keep backing up that cache file to iTunes. I like the ability to see a map of where I've been using the iPhoneTracker app. :(
Agreed! Stupid whiners. I hope they will add an option to let your iphone continue keeping a cache of all your locations.
Agreed! Stupid whiners. I hope they will add an option to let your iphone continue keeping a cache of all your locations.
*LTD*
Mar 26, 03:46 PM
I tested Lion, and removed it after a month. Not buying it. I'll use Snow Leopard, it's the best OS so far. I'll see the one after Lion, maybe there will be something interesting.
LOL, you for real?
I'm pretty sure Apple has a handle on things. They seem to know what they're doing.
I'll bet you'll be using Lion after its release and saying the same thing about it as Snow Leopard. Most of us will.
LOL, you for real?
I'm pretty sure Apple has a handle on things. They seem to know what they're doing.
I'll bet you'll be using Lion after its release and saying the same thing about it as Snow Leopard. Most of us will.
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